The Cessna 120-140 Association Forum

Hi
I would like to hear from members on how they perform short field take offs and landings. I have landed in 300 feet, and can take off when light in about 700 feet, but that was utilizing airfields that have longer runways. I would like to attempt a landing and take off at an airfield with a runway length of approximately 750 feet at sea level with no obstructions. Can anyone offer some suggestions or experiences operating on short fields such as this.
I have an O 200 and climb prop.
Thanks/ Bengt

Well....for takeoff, if I had to escape a zombie apocalypse, I would do it as long as the grass is short (assuming there is grass), lightly loaded, and cool temperatures. A head wind will obviously help a lot too.

I operate off a 1450 grass runway with obstacles and can get off the ground by the halfway point without too much issue with normal takeoff technique....tail up then held tail low to the point of rotation. The already noted parameters impact how it goes, of course. I have a C-85 with an O200 crank upgrade and a normal cruise prop (7148).

Other things that will help would be to do a full power run up before releasing the brakes or rolling out onto the runway without stopping then going to full power. You might also consider using a notch or two of flaps and holding the TW down (on the ground) until the point where the plane lifts off (all three wheels at once) in ground effect then pushing forward a bit prior to climb to keep from over rotating until the airspeed picks up. A warmed up engine will help performance as well.

Obviously you have to be right on the numbers for landing. I would use the “tailwheel on the ground first” method.

To be honest, I would suggest trying out different methods on a longer runway in your airplane noting how long it takes you to get off the ground. My engine runs great....not sure how well yours performs.

Mike

Thanks Mike, yes its grass. I will practise on "normal" runways (gras) first. Then befor the event (its a MAF event in a conference for missions), I will check how this short runway looks like on short final! But Im light at that time. The trick with the TW on the grass on take off is new to me. But I will test it!
Bengt

I used to own a strip in the hills, 1350 feet long at 1400' msl with obstructions at both ends. You want to make a steep approach as it gives you the slowest speed over the ground for a given airspeed. Aim for the numbers. Carry just enough speed so you can break the descent. I always did a wheel landing. You can get on the brakes as soon as you have weight on the wheels. Use the elevator to control the tendency to nose over. I was down and stopped in about 350 feet. You can use the flaps on descent, but dump them as soon as you're down as they reduce the effectiveness of the brakes. (This is may be too much to worry about until you get more comfortable with the whole thing.)

I suggest you do a little (ok, a lot) of practicing. First, in the air at a safe altitude. Get stabilized in a power off descent around 55 mph. Practice slipping to loose altitude even faster. Notice where on the airframe you have to look to find a point on the ground that doesn't appear to move relative to you. This is the point where you would arrive if you continued your descent to the ground. (You want your intended touchdown point to show up the same place when you do it for real.) Keep the nose down! Pick an altitude, like 2000 feet, and when you get there, arrest the descent and see how long you can maintain level flight. This is about how long you will have to get it on the ground.

Once you get comfortable with all that, find the shortest strip you can practice on and see how well you can do.

My strip was on the top of a hill, so the surrounding ground was a lot lower. I used to make a level approach at about 1600 feet (200 feet above the touchdown point, at about 60 mph. When I got close to the right sight picture I'd pull the power, lowered the nose and then flare and brake.

Wow, I knew I asked the right people here! Thanks John.
Sure I will practice this a lot. I will be very light, just enough gas and no luggage. And its 750 feet seelevel.
But still, its unusual to me.

Bengt

Bengt,

My most exhilarating C-120 take-off was an 800' rough strip (fist size rocks) at 3,200'MSL, sloping, cliff on one side/trees on the other, and a stiff x-wind breeze off the Mountain. At gross. At the time, McCauley 1A90 was 69/42 on a high-time O-200A. Also, 29" Airstreaks with a Scott 3200 tailwheel.

I'm a low time pilot at 350 hrs, but this is all I do, so I feel safe and competent in the techniques. Here are some tips I've picked up:

1. Since you're off-airport, you're gonna be starting your engine out there---find the wind direction and turn the plane into it before starting.

2. Do not taxi with heavy passengers/cargo over nasty terrain. Carry that stuff to the departure point and load aircraft where you will take-off from.

3. If the strip is questionably short...get out of the plane, pick the tail up, and scoot it back as far as possible.

4. NEVER do a static run-up. If you must test your mags, then do it while taxiing and dragging your brakes. **Hint** Being good at off-airport stuff is more than surviving...you should be able to do it without ANY plane damage with proper techniques.

5. Again, do not add full power while on the brakes (such as an airport short field takeoff). You are asking for rock damage. Apply it smooth and with a purpose with the tail on the ground.

6. Depending on the terrain (mainly softness, not necessarily type; for example, sand in the waterline can be firm and very nice), I would execute a tail low takeoff to get off the ground as soon as possible. Second, immediately stay in ground effect and gain speed while aiming directly at your obstacle. Third, once you hit Vx or a little longer if you are heavy or have strong gusts, rocket ship that thing at best climb.

If the ground is firm and not too rough, I might pin the wheels until I achieve rotation speed + 10% in a heavy x-wind situation. Just evaluate when conditions are present, and choose the technique that makes most sense.

7. How to determine abort criteria? Sometime when you add power, you just never gain flying speed...and the obstacles get bigger in the windshield. 1st, always walk your strip, clean it up, and calculate the distance. For a non-obstacle strip: mark the halfway point with something. For a strip with obstacles, divide the strip in thirds, and mark the end of the first third. When you're on the go, you should have 70% of your rotation speed by these markings. (For example, you should see 35mph at the halfway point of a non-obstacle strip, if you're normal rotation is 50mph). If you don't have this 70% of rotation speed, then abort.

It's a technique I've tried to utilize, but I find looking at gauges in these environments is less than ideal. If you fly enough in the backcountry, you must develop seat of the pants and attitude flying skills that allow your head to stay outside the aircraft. I suggest learning your take-off distance by counting in your head (1 alligator, etc or whatever entertains you). This allows you to dodge obstacles, birds, etc and make your abort decision at the same time. No looking inside required.

8. Landing: get good at wheel landings in normal and x-wind conditions. As mentioned earlier, wheel contact = brakes, and more importantly reduces stress on your tail spring and wheel. If you rely on a tail low approach frequently, you will find yourself repairing the plane in the field. Really benign and soft areas are different--i do tend to like a 3-point with no brakes to prevent a nose over when I think the ground is less than firm.

9. Immediately after stopping on landing, shut down, and walk the strip. You never know what's lurking and gonna damage that plane.Usually, I do this for a first time spot or when its not super obvious.

A little long-winded...have fun out there!

Chris