The Cessna 120-140 Association Forum

Hello all, Wanting to put in a grass strip in,, the length would be 1250 feet. No obstacles higher than a fence post. I"m in South East Texas at about 50 feet above sea level. It would be at about 202 degrees and normal for our area is 15-18. I have a 140 with c-85 and climb prop. The book says 750 feet needed for take off. I am and will be practicing, but just wanted to make sure from the experts. I got my license in a Citabria , 1984 and just getting back into flying. Thanks Steve

Just my 2 cents Steve, but I think thats pretty short. I'm looking at doing the same thing and I have set 1500 ft as a minimum. I'm sure the guys with lots of time on a 140 might see it differently, but I'm just too old to be that bold

I think my fellow moderator John Cooper used to operate his C-140 off a 1,000 to 1,100 foot strip. Maybe he'll chime in and give some pointers on operation from a short field.

OK, it was 1350 feet long and sloped to the South, about 50 feet over its length. Most of that was on the Southern half. Elevation was about 1500'MSL. There were trees at both ends. Big trees. No-over run on either end. There was only one time the wind was strong enough from the North that I took off uphill. I also only landed to the South once. (Learned my lesson!).

I made a steep approach over the trees at about 60 mph. Wheel it on and brake hard and I was always stopped before the half way point. Never attempt a go-around once you've dropped below the elevation of the Northern end. (Did I mention the big trees? I once found out it was possible to bank hard and pass between two of them. Once you got past them the land leveled out again, and was cleared.)

Bottom line, know and respect your limitations. I never flew passengers on hot days or when there was a tailwind taking off to the south. If I couldn't get the wheels off the ground by the half way point I would abort the takeoff. Did I mention the trees at the end were really big?

Both the plane and I survived unscathed.

If you're near sea level, flat and clear approaches, you'll probably be fine. Be careful on hot days and don't wait until it's too late to clear the fence to make a decision. Make sure you keep the surface in good shape. Long grass or soft dirt can really slow things down.

We hangered our 140 @ Mathis Airport (N of Atlanta, now a housing development ) for 10 years. "Mathis" was proudly featured in one of several books published over the years, titled "The Worst Airports in the World". T-shirts and caps proclaimed "If You Can Fly Here, You Can Fly Anywhere". At 1550 feet (from drop-off to drop-off) and 800 MSL, the "runway" was paved & 20' wide, 'though you could land on turf immediately adjacent...precisely, though, as there was another drop-off on that side(!). Oh, and the south runway sloped probably 7 degrees so that landing to the north was the only practical option, unless the wind was at least 15 kts down the other runway direction...plus, there was a "dogleg" mid field...and, of course, trees both ends ('though maybe not as BIG as those John mentions ) . In mid summer I usually began to think seriously about having my 7150 prop twisted for climb...but, then, cooler weather would always come to make it "better". When taking a passenger for the first time I usually told them that we'd likely be inspecting trees and squirrels up close...and, not to panic ("unless you see me panic!" ). ...all that said, flying out of a short (and, "challenging") field can surely make you a better pilot in some important ways and tends to keep you very focused on excellent pre-flights and top notch maintenance. The 120/140 and current/capable 120/140 drivers can certainly function well and safely on really short runways, but it's vital to know and respect all related limitations. FWIW. Mac

Well Steve! By now it should be crystal clear to you whether or not your strip will work. Right? If not, you might consider simulating the conditions and length somewhere with safe margins and make a determination that way. Something else to consider is that today after not being in the game since 1984 your proficiency may not be what it will be after you get back into it on a regular basis. The numbers you cite work, but to be safe, meeting those numbers will require proficiency. Welcome back to flying!

I have been flying off my dirt strip for thirty years. Originally it was 900 feet long and not into the wind. It worked fine for my 140’s and my good friend's Cherokee 180. Twenty years or so ago we put it into the prevailing wind and made it 1700 feet long.
My O-200 powered 140 gets into the air quicker than my C-85, but the were both fine on the 900 foot strip.

Thanks for all the responses. I feel better that knowing it will make a better pilot out of me. Just practice! All I do is stand at one end and look at the the raw land and say,,, All I have to do is hit 55 mph before I hit 1000 feet!

From what I’ve seen before opinions are varied but would vortex generators be beneficial for routine short field operations as proposed here?

steve wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:15 pm Thanks for all the responses. I feel better that knowing it will make a better pilot out of me. Just practice! All I do is stand at one end and look at the the raw land and say,,, All I have to do is hit 55 mph before I hit 1000 feet!

After a ton of practice you will get airborne way before 55mph (by feel) and well within 1000 ft. without using any exotic techniques to get in the air.