The Cessna 120-140 Association Forum

I have some 120-140 projects to rebuild and sell. I am getting ready to start on a new project. I have one that has never had an electric system installed. My question is do you think there is a market for a Cessna 120 with out an electrical system. Earl Evans

I do ,but think it’s a limited one, in my opinion if it’s an original 120 without any of the weight gaining “improvements” it would be more enticing to a purist, who is the person most likely who would want one.
I believe but am not sure that an aircraft that never had an electrical system is exempt from the ADSB requirement?

a64pilot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:11 pm I do ,but think it’s a limited one, in my opinion if it’s an original 120 without any of the weight gaining “improvements” it would be more enticing to a purist, who is the person most likely who would want one.
I believe but am not sure that an aircraft that never had an electrical system is exempt from the ADSB requirement?

These days I suspect your options for selling an aircraft sans electrical system are extremely small. The market seems to cater to the crowd with more electronic gadgets and GPS's. At least that is what I'm seeing.

I believe the "intent" of the ADS'B exemption would be for an entire line of aircraft that was built sans electrical system, not just a few odd s/n's. At least that is what I think they meant? Regardless, no ADS-B means you can't fly into certain airspace is all. That being said, now that I have ADS-B............I sure like it! I can see traffic way out there and the on board weather is priceless!

I think the market for a 120 w/o a starter is two people!
Just my humble opinion.
The ease and utility of a starter is a great benefit.

I realize it’s a lot to upgrade to electrics and where do you stop?
Nav lights, strobe?
Transponder?
Radio?
ADSB?

There are lots of Aeroncas and Cubs around to fill this small market niche.

I doubt you could recoup the cost to convert it in the sale. So, it comes down to whether or not you can sell it without one.

Well I believe the intent of an electrical system and ADSB is to not force someone into having to install an electrical system in an aircraft that doesn’t have one, whether the entire production didn’t or not is irrelevant, but I feel pretty sure that you can’t remove the electrical system to get out of the ADSB requirement either.

You don’t have to have ADSB out, I don’t, just can’t fly where it’s required is all. That has become somewhat of a pain for me, but I’m looking for a traveling airplane now and may just leave the 140 without ADSB. I’ve had ADSB in through a GDl-39 and a 696 for I think maybe 10 years? I know I’ve had the 696 for that long as the database dates are 2011.

However I believe that if you don’t have an electrical system, you can fly where ADSB is required, your exempt from the requirement, but not others like two way communication, which may be able to be satisfied with a handheld? If so then class ought to be available, but not class B or inside the mode c ring

I believe an electrical system may be pushing 50 lbs all in?

Doesn't the ADSB mandate specifically exempt aircraft certified without electrical systems? In that case it would seem that all of the 120's would qualify, since isn't the type certificate sans electric, regardless whether or not one was later installed? BTW, the regs do allow provisions for continued access to ATC controlled airspace without ADSB. Just a few more hoops to jump through to get in.

14 CFR 91.225(e)
"The requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to any aircraft not originally certificated with an electrical system, or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed"...

A Cessna 120 without an electrical system is exempt. As soon as an electrical system is installed (with the legal paperwork) is has been certified with an electrical system and the exemption no longer applies.

The ability to operate in ADSB airspace without ADSB is a limited exemption intended to be able to get into ADSB airspace for installation or service, not normal operations.

AOPA's Pilot Information Center is a great resource for some of the not so clear regulation questions.

I, for one, would be interested in a 120 without an electrical system. As long as it for certain had never been certified with one.