Transponder/Encoder to fly OVER a TFR?

[6597]

Pondering the wildfires cropping up here in the Pacific Northwest, I can certainly fly around the TFR's that are presented for fire fighting aircraft but wondered if you could fly over them without a transponder/encoder? I'm guessing they are treated like Class C airspace but I don't know the specific regs. Just a topic that came up at morning coffee at the airport. Some of the TFR's I've seen have a ceiling of 2500' or 5000'. My CFI believes you need a transponder/encoder but he hasn't found the applicable regulation yet...

[6643]

Be careful flying around those fires! About 35 years ago we had some fires here in the eastern US. I was flying along north of NYC and suddenly found myself in IFR conditions without a clearance or rating... (I mean "a guy I know"...)

[6597]

Be careful flying around those fires!

Been there done that. A few years ago it was so smokey in the Willamette Valley that even though the ASOS/AWOS were reporting 10 CLR once you got to altitude it was pretty dismal.

Am hoping to get to northern Idaho next week and there are a few fires along my route. My CFI simply can't find (yet) a requirement about overflying TFR's without a transponder (which mine is INOP). Not that I intend to, just a good round table question.

[6183]

David,
As with your instructor I also can't find anything either in CFAR 91 that pertains to your question about a requirement of having a working transponder/encoder to fly over a natural disaster TFR such as a forest fire area; however, I would highly recommend that you take a close look at CFAR 91.137 which covers the subject of TFR operations. That regulation goes into the details of the types of flights authorized to fly inside such a TFR, but doesn't address flights above. Personally, and this is the CFI in me, flying around a natural disaster TFR is the safe way to conduct the flight. However, you could contact the controlling agency that issued the NOTAM for the TFR, and inquire about your desired route of flight and ask if flight above the TFR area without a transponder/encoder would be authorized, but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get your wish even if you could communicate with ATC with your onboard radio.

I agree with John on this one, flights near areas of limited visibility that change to near zero visibility can get out of hand very quickly especially when the aircraft or pilot isn't equipped for legal instrument flight. Just my 2 cents.

[6597]

Mike,

Yup, I reviewed CFAR 91.137, CFAR 91.215 (transponders), and Advisory Circular AC 91-63D with no results also. Nevertheless, I'm a rather cautious flyer so have several outs if I need them. I've left myself multiple routes and plenty of time, plus several airport camping spots to choose from, lots of options. We just thought it was odd that there was no requirement as for Class C airspace for instance.

Several of the TFR's of concern have been withdrawn, so that's good news for me. However the one that bugs me is 20nm NW of Sandpoint ID that is rather close to Cavenaugh Bay 66S which is the first night's stop for me. Will have to check in at Sandpoint and talk with the locals but may have to divert on to Kalispell MT for a plan B. Monitoring prevailing winds daily.

[tonycondon]

theres no FAR requirement to have a transponder to overfly a TFR

[4004]

I agree with Tony - we have enough FAA regs, so don't "create" new ones for them. Logic says, if they had a concern, they could have specified! 2c
David which transponder do you have?

[6597]

David which transponder do you have?

A very defunct KT75R. We got tired of canibalizing older units. BeaconX/AV30 maybe in the future.

[chewie]

David,
When the Tunnel 5 fire by White Salmon was going strong the commander on the controlling frequency apparently let several GA aircraft going up the Gorge through so they could land in Hood River. The TFR was 24 hrs / day but the aerial activity and smoke were not, so it just depends. If a TFR is really blocking you and things look otherwise ok, I think it's worth while to at least call them. That said, I know that probably doesn't help you in advance planning.

Mark

[6597]

Just got back and the TFR's for all the current fires seemed to crop up and fade with the wind, turns out I only needed to worry about one near Cavenaugh Bay 66S and everything else I could easily avoid. The down side was that visibility in most of the PNW is pretty crappy right now, the Canadian fires are actually sending smoke into Montana and Idaho. Was breathing that stuff for 7 hours this morning.