Dad's Old Cessna 140 / Project Pricing

[freddys140]

I'm trying to price out a fair value for a 1947 Cessna 140 Project.

The Good - Plane has been hangered or in enclosed storage for the 20 years or so out of the sun, The C85 is low time. The fuselage appears to be in good condition.
The Bad - The plane has been sitting somewhere around 15 years, the current owner had the wings removed to have the wings recovered and never got around to getting it finished.
The Complicated - The plane belonged to my dad and I have a sentimental value to it which has the potential to cloud my judgement. It has been owned by the man he sold it to this entire time so it has not been passed around between very many hands.

This would be my first plane purchase I am currently in the process of getting my A&P Licenses. I have been working as a mechanic for the last 5 years but not in aviation. I am willing to take on a multi year project. What are some good things to check and are there any A&Ps who know the platform that would be willing to travel to the MEM area, which is where the plane is located, and preform a prebuy inspection. The current owner said he is open to selling the plane but it is not on the open market and is not costing him anything where it sits. So wondering what kind of budget I would need to make it feasible.

Plane Value ?
Finish recovering 5k - 20k Depending if I go through a shop or find a mentor to work along side.
Engine overhaul required based on age but maybe not by hours 20k if overhauled.

Open to any and all advice on the subject and would love to know what everyone thinks of the idea.
I will update the thread with picture when I am able to go see the plane again.

[edidin]

First thing I'd look into is the amount or absence of serious corrosion. "Sitting around somewhere" can be anything from climate controlled warehouse to rat and mouse infested barn.

If you get your A&P you can at least tear down and inspect the C85 yourself. Given up on predicting whether an engine that has sat will later give good service for a time, but recently have been erring on the side of it will not. At least would put in all new bearings and seals plus new cylinders.

Fabric is not that hard but time consuming. Find a junk elevator to cover and see if it's something can see yourself doing. The world will only see the final coats, so perhaps cover yourself and have a pro paint it. It's dollars either way. Covering will require IA sign off regardless as it's a major repair.

Personally can't help with the sentimental bit. I've reach the age where what used to be sentimental is now just old stuff. Case in point - recently had the chance to buy back the car we carted our daughter around in for years when she was little. Not much money involved (which should also be the case for the 140) but it was junk, not worth it, and moved on.

[freddys140]

I did not see any notable amounts of corrosion when I got to go see the plane previously, is their any areas to check in particular. I do know it moved between 3 hangers for the majority of the time since the wings have been pulled. The last 6 years or so it has been in an enclosed garage.

I feel comfortable tearing down the engine for inspection, new to working on aviation engines not new to working on old carb engines and we are going into Airframe 1 next semester I will get a chance at covering during that class, I am fine sinking free time into the project to offset overall cost.

My dad passed in 2011 and I set out to find the plane about two years ago, got to meet the current owner of it 2 weeks ago which was very exciting. I was already planning on buying a plane for time building and to continue my training. I know usually buying the nicest example of a plane and building from that point would most likely be more affordable, but at the same time I would love the chance to restore his old plane to a airworthy condition.

Still wondering about what a fair offer for the plane would be given the amount of work it will need.

[6643]

Can you do the wings and the engine as projects for school? I'm retired now, but I would have been open to that when I was an instructor. We never did complete wings, because no one asked, but we did do a few engines over the years.

[freddys140]

Would have to broach the subject with the instructors that would be nice if it was something they where up too.

[freddys140]

What do you think a fair value would be given condition, I don't want to offend the current owner but I also don't want to overpay like crazy, given the very expensive repairs that are lined up to make it airworthy.

[meloosifah]

For me, given an engine rebuild and new fabric - even if everything else was perfect, I’m not paying more than $3-5,000. You can buy a really nice flying plane for less than $30k - fabric is $10-20,000 and the engine is the same. Add in all the work and you’re quickly going to spend far more than the plane is ever going to be worth. And a pristine rebuild is still only a $40-45,000 plane. Back to my first sentence - it’s a $5000 project at best.

[V529]

For me, given an engine rebuild and new fabric - even if everything else was perfect, I’m not paying more than $3-5,000. You can buy a really nice flying plane for less than $30k - fabric is $10-20,000 and the engine is the same. Add in all the work and you’re quickly going to spend far more than the plane is ever going to be worth. And a pristine rebuild is still only a $40-45,000 plane. Back to my first sentence - it’s a $5000 project at best.

A pretty fair assessement. You could go a little more, "cuz it was Dad's airplane"........but not much. John had a great point about using your school for some of the labor. The cost of materials for both the wings and the engine will shock you on the pricing. One other factor. During those moves there will be little "bits" that get lost. Those bits while maybe not expensive can absorb tremendous amounts of time to locate.

[freddys140]

That was one part I wasn't considering, I can imagine finding parts that old could be a pain, the school is in the middle of a "changing of the torch" for the Air Frame course so I am waiting till the new guy gets settled and I'll try bringing it up with him. Would also be nice not having to pay for a hanger. Now I just got to find an A&P to help me get a solid prebuy inspection and I'll be ready to join the club officially. That and Nail down covered storage for the plane is hasn't been out in the weather for this long and I will not be the one to start.

[V529]

Good Plan!