PreHeating C-85

[6643]

I do wish I knew who 8322 is and for that matter who everyone else is that posts on this forum as a number but not as a person with a name. Just saying.

Working on it...

Rob chose the path that got us back on line fastest after the hack attack and also integrated the forum database with the member database.

[8322]

8322 made some good points in this discussion reflecting points made by the Tanis Heater rep at the Faribault convention in 2016. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I will say that I do wish I knew who 8322 is and for that matter who everyone else is that posts on this forum as a number but not as a person with a name. Just saying.

My name is Ray Huckleberry. I'm a new member, I'm meeting 1859V Monday as long as weather holds and the last inspection point the mechanic forgot I wanted (die checking the axles) is all good, so I'm a newbie to the 140... When I jumped into buying process I've spend my anxious hours waiting researching all I can to be the best airplane owner I can be. Preheating was something that really caught me off guard in terms of its complexity, I had no clue there was so much to it. I can't imagine whats left to learn in terms of: I don't yet even know what I don't know! lol.

I suppose we could all just try to make sure we sign off on our posts so we get a name right in the post...

Take Care,

Ray Huckleberry

[8322]

I don't think a hairdryer (or two) would be worth the effort. Not enough BTU's.

There is an opening between the lower edge of the cowl and the bottom of the firewall you can direct the heat from a preheater into.

Would a heat gun push enough if it wasn't bitter cold? Maybe run some metalic dryer duct off it so you weren't getting the super hot blast right out of the gun on anything? As an inexpensive option, especially for folks the the OP who isn't where it gets bitter bitter cold often?

Ray Huckleberry

[6673]

John Kliewer, I sent you a PM.

[5115]

Hey Guys,

When is it necessary to preheat engine. How do you do it? I leave a 100 watt light bulb in mine on a drop lamp or hit with hair dryer for 15 minutes if it gets below about 40. Usually let it idle about 10 minutes before takeoff. I have c-85 on a 1946 140. Any thoughts?

Hi Joe,
I installed my skis yesterday (Federal 1500) and went flying today. Did 1.5hrs, that was just great. It was the first time since I have C-FJAR that it goes on skis so early in the season. We already have a good 8 inches covering our 1880 feet grass strip. (Montreal, Qc, Canada)
If you did get a copy of the Spring 2018 Newsletter, you will see an article (which I contributed with 2 other fellows) on ski flying. But you will also see pictures of my plane with my homemade copy of a Northern Companion heater on some explanation on pre-heating. I believe Continental has something written on preheating, at what temp and other details, but can't find it right now.

The attachment Northern-Companion.jpg is no longer available

Here's a copy of mine, I used also a MSR camping stove (multi type fuel - can burn 100LL if needed) and ventilation pipes. I carry it in the plane all winter in a spare foldable camping chair bag.. No electricity needed and a great survival piece of equipment (depends where you go flying)

Northern-Companion.jpg (140.42 KiB) Viewed 4925 times

Last night we had 14F and this morning 25F. We rarely fly below 5F, there is no more pleasure at that temp. The cabin is way too cold. It is very usual to have 5F in our region, and it is OK to be outside, you walk, you move...but in the cabin you can't move. But that is a personal limit, I have friends that fly at -13F, and it's OK.
All that to say, personally as soon as we have temps that are at around 35F or below, i use my preheater. With a good cowling cover (or sleeping bags will do), the preheater pipe on the sump, the heat will liquefy the oil (15W50) and heat will remain under the cowl and heat up all the engine block. Very easy to do, while you prepare the plane, do your walkaround. at freezing point 30 mins preheat will do, colder i leave it 45mins.

Then a few hand prop, you hear the magneto impulse clicking and I'm ready to practice my hand propping starts.
3 shots of primer, throttle completely pulled out, 8 shots of handprop, Mags on, 1 handprop and it fires up at idle. Slowly increasing to 1000 rpm and you're done. Turn on master switch and all other goodies. I do it all the time in winter, it gives the battery a break.

Anyway that is my routine, it's been working great for the past 10 years. Enjoy your winter.

[6277]

This works if you have electricity in your hangar. To preheat, I put a comforter over the cowling and clip it tightly around the prop area where the heat might escape. Then I direct the airflow from a hair dryer (1875W) at the oil tank. The heated air flow warms the oil and then rises and warms the cylinders. I am not sure about the bottom end getting warm. About 30 min later the cylinders are warm to the touch. Most hair dryers have a thermal cut off so I think if things got too hot, it would shut off.

I have heard that heaters that are on constantly can cause a "weather cycle" inside your engine. That is, the heat rises, condenses, moisture falls, then the cycle repeats.

[5115]

I have heard that heaters that are on constantly can cause a "weather cycle" inside your engine. That is, the heat rises, condenses, moisture falls, then the cycle repeats.

I agree with you Ray. When I got my plane in 2008, I was told not to plan on leaving a light bulb always On during winter season for that reason you just described.
Better off with a good preheat, go fly, come back, and preheat next time you come to fly.
The air dryer is a great heater (1500W), not expensive, easy to position under the cowl. For the lucky ones with electricity.

[6863]

Ray and Martin, according to the Tanis rep at Faribault in 2016, If the entire engine is heated 24/7 during the cold months, ie: oil on the bottom end and cylinders on the top end, the temperature inside the engine will always remain above dew point which prevents condensation from occurring. In this case engine temperature rises and falls with ambient temperature but never gets below dew point. There is no "weather cycle" with this system so no condensation.

I have no stake in the Tanis heater system but what the rep told us makes lots of sense to me. He backed his statements up with lots of research and documentation done by the company. That said, this year I am not leaving mine on 24/7, preferring to preheat overnight prior to flying, not because I think the Tanis system is susceptible to 'weather cycles" but simply because I think keeping the heat on for several months is overkill in view of our relatively dry climate, and our unreliable electric utility Kansas Electric. (Kansas has adopted several characteristics of a 3rd world country for a number of years, the utilities commission being one of those, but we took steps a couple of weeks ago to change that. )

[8261]

For the purposes of the OP—whom I don’t believe is flying in arctic conditions—I would add a couple things regarding blankets and moisture.

#1- the problem isn’t length of time the heat is applied—I.e., all night or for just 1-3 hrs pre-flight. As stated, consistently warm engine bays are above dew point. However, how bout you start warming and 2 hrs later ground fog develops the rest of the day. You shut off the heater. You repeat this cycle for a couple days, a week, etc just trying to get into the air (common place in some areas). These on/off cycles will definitely create the moisture. It happens—just get in the air asap and get that oil to operating temps. This is where a daily or weekly driver is much better on corrosion resistance.

#2- Engine blankets. I wrap that sucker tight, but leave a crack around the prop (an area higher in the bay). Heat rises and proper ventilation is as important to reduce moisture. You’re engine bay will still be piping hot at arctic temps even with a little vent in the blanket. More importantly it won’t sweat as bad inside. Just as in tents, attics, or other enclosed spaces.

#3- I think you’re using proper tools given your ambient temps and locale. I would throw any blanket over, put your bulb or heater in for 30 min, turn the prop every ten min of heating during preflight to break loose, unplug and let temps even for 15 min, pull blanket and let er rip.

If you wanna fly in the real cold we can discuss that further

Have fun!
Chris

[2135]

I installed a Tanis Heater on my aircraft in 2012 when I lived in Northern Michigan. It is very nice to go out on a nice clear cold day and find the oil temperature around 75 and the cylinder head temp above 100. Starts real easy! The Tanis rep told me to leave it on full time; but I don't if I am going to be gone for a while. I also cover the cowl when I have the heater on. See the attached picture.