Metalized Wings and Pre Buy

[8233]

Hey all, I am new to the association but have been a big 120/140 fan since my first flying was with my dad in a 120 he owned and I also got my float rating in a 120.

I'm looking at buying a 1946 140 that has had the wings metalized in 1960. The A&P who filed the 337 was H. Farley Vincent. He refers to a STC of SA 2-95.

I cannot seem to find out anything about this STC because it looks like it is expired. My Google searches pulled up a bit of information on Mr. Vincent and looks like he may have owned several 120/140 STCs among other things. Is anyone familiar with this STC?

Also, I have had various people make comments to me about avoiding the metal wings. The biggest argument is the added weight. The 337 says it added 21.48 lbs which isn't what I would call a deal breaker. If there anything else about the metal wings beyond the typical things to look for like corrosion? I suspect some may have strong opinion on fabric vs metal wings on a 140 but anything specific pros/cons would be appreciated. Is it something I should avoid and why?

I am also working on finding a mechanic to do the pre-buy. The plane is in Oklahoma and I found a couple of names in the association library but so far, no joy finding someone who can make themselves available. Does anyone have any other recommendations beyond the mechanic list in the library?

Thanks again!

David Freeland

[8170]

SA4-315, SA4-341, and SA$-89 are the only STCs I could find on this subject

[8233]

Same here. I'm assuming if it was a correct STC, it may have been surrendered.

[6643]

Typed out a long reply then lost it to the ether...

Wing recovering is a major modification or repair, so, every time it is done a 337 is required. One copy to the FAA and one to the aircraft's permanent records. If you cannot find the aircraft copy, you can order a copy of all the records on file with the FAA for a reasonable cost: less than $10, IIRC.

I tried to research SA2-95 and couldn't find any information on it. Interestingly, SA2-952 is an STC for installation of Razorback fiberglass covering, but it doesn't apply to the Cessna 120/140. (It does, coincidentally, apply to the 170.)

I'n not a big fan of metalized wings. First, the wing structure is for ever hidden. Second, the few I have flown seemed to be less nimble when compared to mine with Stits. However, as long as the plane flies straight and there are no wrinkles in the skins I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

[8233]

Thanks for that information as well! I do have the scan from the FAA of the 337 for the work, I had all of the 337s pulled for review. The plane seemed to fly well but I can't say I have flown them a ton of hours to have a good understanding of characteristics of one from another.

[4004]

If you want to really dig for info, you may want to call Sowell Aviation, Panama City, FL - they were doing a lot of metallizing 120/140s and Ercoupe back in the late 50/60s. I don't remember if they had their own STC or was using another. Looks like the family members are still involved in the company but may not have historical info - I'm assuming the old man may not be still with us, then again you know about "ass-u-me"!

Big Edd

[8233]

Thanks for that. I did some digging and was able to find out the following. I got this from someone with the Louisiana Aviation News who reached out to someone for info. That person's email is bellow. Sorry if the formatting is a bit screwy:

I know that you can tell it is a Vincent STC as he lapped the metal skin over the top of the leading edge instead of under it. I know he had STC’s to do Ercoupe wings and Cessna 170 wings and also a metal center section for Stearmans and metal ribs for regular & extended wings on Stearmans with wood spars and metal skin on the top surfaces of Stearman Duster wings with fabric underneath. He also had built some “super extended” wings for a Stearman. I don’t know what the span was, but it looked like it was close to 50’. A duster friend of his (last name Snead), from Redwood, MS was flying one with those wings with either a 220 Continental or 225 Lycoming Radial engine(can’t remember) and they had written it up on the 337 as if it was the wings were the STC’d regular long wings. That thing would absolutely leap off of the ground and they claimed they could haul a heavier load than regular winged Stearmans with 450 Pratts. Just before Farley got cancer, he and George Greiner(Retired Eastern Pilot) who lived here were building a set of the super long wings to try to get an STC for them. He also wanted to do a twin engine version of a Stearman with I0-470 engines like in a Cessna 185. I think his daughters sold all the Stearman stuff to Pete Jones in Cleveland, MS who builds up Stearman stuff. Farley always claimed that it was legal to build a new Stearman since it was designed and built with Federal Govt. money and therefore the design belonged to the U.S. public. I never believed him but I also knew him well enough not to argue with him. LOL One thing that always amazed me was his method of coating the wing ribs he built. Most people spray zinc chromate on their aluminum. Farley had a big pipe about 10 or 12 inches in diameter and about 6’ or so long full of Zinc Chromate. He’d stir it up with an electric drill with a real long paint stirrer when he was going to do ribs or other small aluminum parts. He would dip the ribs in that stuff and hang them over it for a few minutes to drip and then hang them on what was basically a clothes line to dry. The colors came out various shades of green but what was amazing was that you couldn’t scrape that stuff off of them, not like sprayed on zinc chromate. The FAA would have all the records of any inactive STC’s, including the Vincent Aeronautical ones and I believe would have to share them since they are no longer active and wouldn’t be listed as being available for use from Vincent or his heirs. Both of Farley’s daughters are now deceased. Farley had a brochure when he was in Longview, TX; ”Vincent of Longview” that had a picture of his 4 engine Starflight and a list of all his STC’s, etc. There was a Cessna 140A fuselage in his shed in Covington that he had built. He had copied one and built it from scratch. That was another project he wanted to do. Farley’s problems (2) were, #1: he would get a new idea and quit on something he was working on and start on the new idea. #2: a lack of money. Did you know he was General Hap Arnold’s Air liaison during WW2 and was involved with the Brodie Device that launched Cubs & L-5’s from a cable. Also, he was C.O. of the New Orleans Air Guard unit and the only member of his unit that lost their life was the Zemurray boy who flew in to Mt. Zemur in Italy. He used to say: “For his whole life, the Zemurray boy had a mountain with his name on it waiting for him”. He attributed their flying success because they had learned to fly in Luscombes.

[2066]

Wow -- what a fun story to read. Thanks for sharing it, David! It's clear that Vincent was not only a talented and ambitious person, but that he also accomplished a lot of neat (and, some unusual!) stuff aviation-wise. ...hope this is going to help you zero in on the metalized job/decision on this particular aircraft. Mac

[8233]

Thanks Mac. Having a bit of back story and insight into his techniques does give me a higher comfort level of the quality of the work and I find it fascinating. With the minimal weight addition, I don't feel a concern. I did have a bit of the issues with the pics n my post and those should be fixed now.

This plane has also been well taken care of and loved. The sellers are completely great to work with and I am having a pre buy done on Saturday and with a good outcome, will own my first 140.

As far as the pre buy, I am asking for corrosion checks throughout, compression, overall engine check including a borescope. Borescope into the wings and tail to look for any cracks. I also want to make sure the gear boxes looks solid as well as checking for cracks on the door posts.

Is there anything else I'm missing that would be considered a must check?

Thanks again

[2066]

It seems that you've covered the important areas, 'though someone more knowledgeable may wade in here with suggestions. No doubt all of the ADs will be checked as well. FWIW, I'm well acquainted with two 140s that have metalized wings -- one is a close neighbor who I fly with regularly. With a polished fuselage, his wings are very well done + painted a "close" gray color and one can almost miss seeing that they're metal. We have flown together X-C quite a bit over the years, both of us with passengers & luggage & his 140's performance in climb & cruise has seemed similar to mine (with rag wings). Another friend has one that is totally flush riveted &, again, almost appears to be fabric & its performance seems similar. ...still, weight is always a potentially major issue with our planes as many have gained weight in other areas also..."legal" maximums with passenger & fuel added can be quickly pushed. Your diligence seems right on track -- good luck with the inspection and do keep us posted. Mac