Takeoff distance issues

[5422]

That sounds about right. With some practice and finesse you will better that distance. If you push the tail up to early it lengthens the roll a bit. I start out with flaps set equal to what the full down aileron deflection is and once full throttle is applied let it roll just a bit then raise the tail to near level till it feels right and feed in the back pressure till it gets airborne and nose it over to accelerate. Kinda like finding a sweet spot and every airplane seems different. I’m not a fan of “popping” the flaps on takeoff. It works in some instances. Years ago while flying a 185 for airtaxi work in Alaska a check airman pulled me aside and told me to knock that sh$& off. Stating that if you need to do something that exotic to get airborne maybe you shouldn’t be there or need a more capable airplane. In the 140 sometimes that flap handle will slam back down just when you think it’s locked especially with the twist handle.

[6863]

Art, good to hear your techniques discussion. I will say that during a properly executed Cessna 185 flap pop off, the flap handle is never dependent upon a detent to hold it in place. Things happen too quickly for that. At the right moment, the flap handle is rapidly brought to 45 degrees and as soon as the aircraft is out of the mud flaps go to a normal setting till obstacles are cleared and safe airspeed is achieved. Most of the time if done correctly all that takes place in less than 15 seconds from pop off to zero flaps.

As for your check airman who told you to knock it off, he did so from the safe space of a federal employee, not from a position in the real world. Yes of course the need for a flap pop off is rare, but you don't go out and buy a Helio Courrier to replace your 185 just for those rare occasions.

[8474]

Aren't you guys talking apple and oranges or in this case fowler and hinge flaps. Comparing a 185 and flap use to a 140 seems a bit odd to me since the 140 flaps are essentially speed brakes. Granted my 140 time is very limited but I use no flaps for take-off, only for landing as described in the POM, although I do see a 3 MPH difference in power on stall speed with flaps in the POM.

[6863]

Yes Blaine you're correct. We are talking apples and oranges comparing fowler and straight hinged flaps. Art brought up the 185 and flap pop offs so I indulged him. Just reminiscing. It takes me back to a differently enjoyable era sans email, mobile phones, GPS, and a wildly litigious society. Where I was at the time, HF radio, word of mouth weather reports from trusted people, a good timepiece and a rock solid hold on heading were king along with the 185 and a few scientifically proven techniques up one's sleeve.

[8233]

Although I don't have any flaps with the 120, popping flaps just prior to lift off does have some affect in the 140 according to some 140 owners I have chatted with. It's actually mentioned in the operations manual on pages 22-23.

[8474]

"It takes me back to a differently enjoyable era sans email, mobile phones, GPS, and a wildly litigious society." I second and third that motion!!

[5422]

I don’t think popping the flaps in a 140 makes a huge difference in improving the takeoff distance. A couple of us with comparable planes at gross weight came up with approx 15-20’. The instantaneous lift provided by the popping of the flaps Is quickly equaled out by drag, unless once airborne you VERY carefully ease them up without contacting the ground again. Some folks call the 120 a dog cause it doesn't have flaps. From what I’ve seen there isn’t much takeoff distance difference between the two models. Albeit a 120 might be a bit lighter in some cases.
I should have clarified my experience popping the flaps in a 185 on take to include full power, set the friction lock good and add flaps keep hand on handle till your desired climb out configuration is attained. You can do that in a 140 as well. Sounded like I just said jack the flaps grab the throttle and forget about it.LOL